问题：中国和俄罗斯加起来打得过美国吗？
美国网友高弗里•温迪逊的回答
This kind of thing will never happen, I don't know why you Americans have such fear and doubt in your hearts, but I will still analyze it specifically for you.
这种事情永远不会发生，我不知道为什么你们美国人心中为什么会有这样的惶恐和疑虑，但我还是会为你具体分析一下。
This will depend on what kind of war the United States will be "defeated" in.
首先，这将取决于美国将在什么样的战争中被“击败”。
If the United States is an aggressor, fighting in Asia, and Russia is helping China, then the United States may be defeated. The United States will have to transport a large number of troops across the largest ocean on Earth, which requires a significant amount of mobile power. (Our troops already stationed in Asia are not enough to invade China. Even with sufficient troops, Russia and China may notice that we have withdrawn 30000 soldiers from South Korea and 50000 soldiers from Japan.)
如果美国是侵略者，在亚洲作战，而俄罗斯在帮助中国，那么美国可能会被打败。美国将不得不运送大量的部队越过地球上最大的海洋，这需要大量的机动力量。(我们已经驻扎在亚洲的军队不足以入侵中国。即使有足够的兵力，俄罗斯和中国也可能会注意到我们从韩国撤走3万名士兵，从日本撤走5万名士兵。)
美军日本军事基地
Obviously, any invasion by the United States is carried out after intense disagreements with China and/or Russia, so both countries will closely monitor the movements of the US military and navy. The United States will not suddenly invade.
显然，美国的任何入侵都是在与中国和/或俄罗斯发生激烈分歧之后进行的，因此两国都将密切关注美国军队和海军的动向。美国不会突然入侵。
After this arduous troop mobilization, the United States will have to maintain a logistics chain to provide supplies to troops and aircraft in combat against two powerful opponents with much shorter supply chains.
Then, the United States will have to establish an air advantage to confront the much larger Chinese military, which will have a home advantage. If we assume a full-scale war (everything the United States has over China), then air superiority will be possible - albeit at a very high cost. However, if Russia and China fight side by side, the Russian air force may destroy the remnants of the US air force and establish some form of air superiority. This is where America failed.
然后，美国将不得不建立空中优势，以对抗规模大得多的中国军队，后者将拥有主场优势。如果我们假设一场全面战争(美国拥有的一切对中国拥有的一切)，那么空中优势将是可能的——尽管代价非常高昂。然而，如果俄罗斯与中国并肩作战，那么俄罗斯空军可能会摧毁美国空军的残余力量，并建立某种形式的空中优势。这就是美国失败的地方。
Even if the United States passes this, the Chinese military, which has an advantage in quantity, may still win ground wars. Generally speaking, the US military is well trained and well-equipped, but China's numerical advantage, Russia's air superiority, Russian military assistance to China, and the combination of logistics will ultimately erode the US military. Otherwise, China may use its limited nuclear power to eliminate the remaining US military.
即使美国通过了这一点，数量上占优势的中国军队也可能赢得地面战争。一般来说，美国军队训练有素，装备精良，但中国的数量优势，俄罗斯的空中优势，俄罗斯军队援助中国，以及后勤的结合最终会消磨美国军队。否则，中国可能会动用其有限的核力量来消灭剩余的美军。
If the United States is an aggressor invading Russia, then no one will win, even if China aids Russia. The reason is simple. During the Cold War, the United States and Russia were rivals in global conflicts from Central America to Vietnam and Afghanistan. In the past, these conflicts may have led to full-scale war, but this was not the choice of the two nuclear superpowers. No other country is worth taking the risk of nuclear war and ethnic suicide.
如果美国是侵略者，入侵俄罗斯，那么没有人会赢，即使中国援助俄罗斯。原因很简单。冷战期间，美国和俄罗斯在从中美洲到越南到阿富汗的全球冲突中都是对手。在过去，这些冲突可能会导致全面战争，但这不是两个核超级大国的选择。没有其他国家值得冒核战争和民族自杀的风险。
However, both the United States and Russia understand that if the other party attempts to invade the "home country" (the United States or Russia) itself, then nuclear weapons are definitely a choice to defend their homeland. The same goes for today. Faced with the threat of survival, both the United States and Russia would rather risk nuclear destruction of the world than sit back and see failure. For both the United States and Russia, it is' if we are going to collapse, they will collapse with us. '
然而，美国和俄罗斯都明白，如果对方试图入侵“母国”(美国或俄罗斯)本身，那么核武器绝对是保卫祖国的一个选择。今天也是如此。面对生存威胁，美国和俄罗斯都宁愿冒着核毁灭世界的风险，也不愿坐视失败。对美国和俄罗斯来说，都是“如果我们要垮台，那么他们就会和我们一起垮台。”
Russia's population is only half that of the United States, its economic scale is only one tenth that of the United States, and its military budget is only a small part of the United States. Russia's ability to continue a prolonged war will be greatly weakened, while the strong logistical capabilities of the United States will offset any advantages provided by the Chinese military. In the end, Russia will have no choice but to use nuclear weapons to prevent the United States from advancing. This is where war is no longer interesting for the three countries, no one will win.
俄罗斯的人口只有美国的一半，经济规模只有美国的十分之一，军事预算只是美国的一小部分。俄罗斯继续一场持久战的能力将大大减弱，而美国强大的后勤能力将抵消中国军队提供的任何优势。最终，俄罗斯将别无选择，只能使用核武器来阻止美国的前进。这就是战争对三个国家来说不再有趣的地方，没有人会赢。
Finally, let's take a look at the final scenario - will Russia and China invade the United States?
最后我们来看看最后一个场景——俄罗斯和中国会入侵美国吗?
The answer is easily negative.
答案很容易是否定的。
Many other answers are based on wishful thinking. Well, if you can sink the US Navy, then the ocean will become clean and unobstructed, allowing for land invasion, or if you destroy their satellites, they will become blind and may be defeated, Or "if the entire Marine Corps is too foolish to notice that they are about to enter the edge of Niagara Falls, then... such nonsense. These answers are only valid when the question is" Is there a fantasy scenario where Russia and China may invade the United States?
很多其他的答案都是基于一厢情愿的想法。“嗯，如果你能击沉美国海军，那么海洋就会变得干净，没有任何阻挡，可以进行陆地入侵”，或者“如果你摧毁了他们的卫星，那么他们就会失明，可能会被打败”，或者“如果整个海军陆战队都太愚蠢，没有注意到他们即将进入尼亚加拉瀑布的边缘，那么....。诸如此类的废话。这些答案只有在问题是“是否存在俄罗斯和中国可能入侵美国的幻想场景”时才有效?
Of course, you can use submarines to sink our aircraft carriers and use anti satellite weapons to destroy our satellites, but Guess what? The Pentagon is also aware of this, so they are ready to defend against such attacks. The United States has anti-submarine weapon, attack submarines and our own attack satellites. That's why all What would happen if you destroyed their so-and-so... these statements are nonsense. In any war, if you eliminate all the enemies, you can easily win. Indeed, this is the meaning of war. Destroying our satellites, navy, air force, etc. is not that easy, and those who propose these fantasies cannot guarantee that the United States will not cause more damage to the assets of Russia and China in the first place. A military budget of $600 billion annually buys a lot of cool equipment
当然，你可以用潜艇击沉我们的航空母舰，用反卫星武器摧毁我们的卫星，但是....你猜怎么着?五角大楼也知道这一点，所以他们已经准备好了防御这种攻击。美国有反潜武器、攻击型潜艇和我们自己的攻击卫星。这就是为什么所有的“如果你摧毁了他们的某某某....会怎样，这些言论都是无稽之谈。在任何战争中，如果你消灭了所有的敌人，你就能轻松获胜。真的，这就是战争的意义所在。摧毁我们的卫星、海军、空军等并不是那么容易的，提出这些幻想场景的人都不能保证美国不会首先对俄罗斯和中国的资产造成更多的破坏。(每年6000亿美元的军事预算买了很多很酷的装备。)
At this point, all the disadvantages of the US invasion of China became advantages.
这时美国入侵中国时的所有劣势都变成了优势。
If Russia and China want to attack the United States, they have only three options
如果俄罗斯和中国想要进攻美国，那么他们只有三个选择
1) Land invasion (through Alaska/Canada and/or Mexico);
1)陆地入侵(通过阿拉斯加/加拿大和/或墨西哥);
2) Amphibious attack (East Coast, West Coast, or both), or
2)两栖攻击(东海岸，西海岸，或两者)，或者
3) Aerial invasion (basically, airplanes drop paratroopers and equipment directly onto the mainland of the United States).
3)空中入侵(基本上，飞机直接向美国大陆空投伞兵和装备)。
These three options are almost impossible. This is why the United States has never been invaded since 1812
这三种选择几乎都是不可能的。(这就是美国自1812年以来从未被入侵的原因。)
Option 1- Land invasion.
选项1 -土地入侵。
a) Crossing Alaska/Canada- First, Russians and Chinese must cross the Bering Strait. The United States' air and sea advantages will prevent this from happening. If they did cross the strait, they would have to transport a large number of troops through the frozen wilderness of Alaska and Canada. Although the Russians can better cope with the cold climate, they do not have enough troop transportation to complete this task. China also does not have enough troop transportation and is not accustomed to the Arctic climate.
a)穿越阿拉斯加/加拿大。-首先，俄罗斯人和中国人必须穿过白令海峡。美国的空中和海上优势将阻止这种情况的发生。如果他们真的越过海峡，那么他们将不得不通过阿拉斯加和加拿大的冰冻荒野运送大量的军队。虽然俄罗斯人可以更好地应对寒冷的气候，但他们没有足够的部队运输来完成这一任务。中国也没有足够的部队运输，也不习惯北极的气候。
After marching/driving through the vast expanse of Canada, they arrived in the United States only to find that they had no significant military targets to occupy in the area. This gave the United States enough time to gather defensive forces. Then, the Russian and Chinese armies will face the US Army, the United States Marine Corps, the US Air Force, the National Guard and the whole big country, which happens to have the most fully armed citizens on the earth, and they will have the home court advantage.
在行军/开车穿过广袤的加拿大之后，他们到达了美国，却发现他们在该地区没有重要的军事目标可以占领。这给了美国足够的时间来集结防御力量。然后，俄罗斯和中国军队将面对美国陆军、美国海军陆战队、美国空军、国家国民警卫队和整个大国，而这个大国恰好拥有地球上最全副武装的公民，他们将拥有主场优势。
b) Through Mexico. Almost all the same obstacles apply, but Russians and Chinese must first cross the largest or second largest ocean on Earth to reach Mexico, which the US air and naval forces can prevent.
b)通过墨西哥。几乎所有相同的障碍都适用，但俄罗斯人和中国人必须首先穿越地球上最大或第二大的海洋才能到达墨西哥，而美国的空军和海军部队可以阻止这一点。
The only real difference is that when Russian/Chinese troops reach the US border, they either discover a vast open desert with no important military targets and become live targets, or they discover California or Texas - both with large army and air bases, making it easier to repel invading forces. In Texas, they will also find that 15 million fully armed citizens really enjoy shooting. Admittedly, they cannot effectively defend professional armies, but they will become a powerful obstacle for guerrilla resistance.
唯一真正的区别是，当俄罗斯/中国军队到达美国边境时，他们要么会发现一片广阔的空旷沙漠，没有重要的军事目标，他们会成为活靶子，要么他们会发现加州或德克萨斯州——这两个地方都有庞大的陆军和空军基地，更容易击退入侵部队。在德克萨斯州，他们也会发现1500万全副武装的公民真的很喜欢射击。诚然，他们不能有效地防御职业军队，但他们会成为一个强大的障碍，进行游击抵抗。
Of course, Russia and China must maintain supply lines for all these forces, which can easily be disrupted by US air and/or naval forces. This is assuming that they have the logistical capability to do so, but none of them do.
当然，俄罗斯和中国必须为所有这些部队维持补给线，这很容易被美国空军和/或海军部队破坏。这是假设他们有这样做的后勤能力，但他们都没有。
Option 2- Amphibious attack.
选项2——两栖攻击。
The advantage of this choice is that there are many large cities worth attacking on both the east and west coasts. However, Russians and Chinese still have to cross the ocean first, and the US air and naval forces can easily prevent this If Russia and China have such logistical capabilities, they do not. Moreover, once again, a successful crossing only means that they will face the concentration of major land and air forces in the United States - some of which are located On the ocean coast.
这种选择的优势在于东西海岸都有很多值得进攻的大城市。然而，俄罗斯人和中国人仍然必须首先穿越大洋，美国的空军和海军力量可以很容易地阻止这一点....如果俄罗斯和中国有这样的后勤能力，他们没有。而且，再一次，一次成功的穿越只意味着他们将面对美国主要的陆地和空中力量的集中-其中一些位于....在大洋海岸。
Option 3- Air Intrusion
选项3 -空中入侵
To be honest, this is a bit like the other side of the fantasy. Russia and China together hardly have enough air logistics capabilities to transport the large number of troops and equipment needed to invade the mainland of the United States. Even if they do, they must first pass through the US Air Force, which is not easy. After doing so, they will face all the other obstacles mentioned in the aforementioned land invasion.
老实说，这有点像幻想的另一面，俄罗斯和中国加起来几乎没有足够的空中后勤能力来运输入侵美国大陆所需的大量军队和大量装备。即使他们做到了，他们也必须首先通过美国空军，这一点都不容易。在这样做之后，他们将面临上述土地入侵中提到的所有其他障碍。
In addition to all the obstacles I have already mentioned, the United States has other defense measures that I did not mention because this article is already long enough. Russia and China are almost impossible to obtain enough troops and equipment to invade the United States, and even if they can, they are almost impossible to win the war.
除了我已经提到的所有障碍之外，美国还有其他防御措施，我没有提到，因为这篇文章已经足够长了。俄罗斯和中国几乎不可能获得足够的军队和装备来入侵美国，即使他们能做到，他们也几乎不可能赢得战争。
Finally, let's take a look at the other side of the Russian scenario. If Russia and China really manage to reach the United States and successfully invade it, then there is nothing that can prevent the United States from using nuclear weapons against invading forces or against two invading countries. In this highly unlikely scenario, the United States will be 'defeated', but victory is not 'worth it' for either Russia or China.
最后，我们来看看俄罗斯情景的另一面。如果俄罗斯和中国真的设法到达美国并成功入侵美国，那么就没有什么能阻止美国对入侵部队使用核武器，或者对两个入侵国家使用核武器。在这种极不可能的情况下，美国将被“击败”，但胜利对俄罗斯或中国都不“值得”。
Similarly, it all depends on what kind of war we are talking about. If the United States were an aggressor in the Asian War, then we would be defeated. If the United States is defending its homeland, then it is almost impossible for anyone to defeat us.
同样，这完全取决于我们谈论的是哪种战争。如果美国在亚洲战争中是侵略者，那么我们会被打败。如果美国是在保卫美国本土，那么谁都几乎不可能打败我们。
海外网友伊戈尔的回答
In military terms, any attack on the United States will be an attack on all NATO member countries, and the United States' joint defense agreements with Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand also have similar provisions. Therefore, this will not only be the confrontation between Russia and China (and possibly North Korea) and the United States, but also between Russia and China and NATO, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand and monarchy countries in the Persian Gulf (such as Saudi Arabia). In such a large-scale war, European non NATO countries that do not border Russia, such as Sweden and Switzerland, are likely to join NATO. Israel will provide assistance as much as possible.
在军事方面，任何对美国的攻击都将是对所有北约成员国的攻击，而美国与日本、韩国、澳大利亚和新西兰的共同防御协议也有类似的条款。因此，这将不仅仅是俄罗斯和中国(可能还有朝鲜)与美国的对抗，而是俄罗斯和中国与北约和日本、韩国、菲律宾、澳大利亚、新西兰以及波斯湾君主制国家(如沙特阿拉伯)的对抗。在如此大规模的战争中，不与俄罗斯接壤的欧洲非北约国家，如瑞典和瑞士，很可能加入北约。以色列将尽可能提供帮助。
北约
India is an interesting exception - millions of Europeans, Americans, Canadians, and Australians are of Indian descent, while there are very few Indians in Russia and China. India has never been a friend of China. So, India will not be on that side. India is most likely to remain neutral, just like in the Cold War, which means Pakistan will remain neutral (not letting India expose itself). Vietnam and Iran will not participate, but the reasons are different. None of the five Stan countries will participate. Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia are also involved. Most countries in South America and Africa will stay out of it, why bother themselves?
印度是一个有趣的例外——有数百万的欧洲人、美国人、加拿大人和澳大利亚人是印度后裔，而在俄罗斯和中国很少有印度人。印度从来不是中国的朋友。所以，印度不会站在那一边。印度最有可能保持中立，就像在冷战中一样，这意味着巴基斯坦将保持中立(不让印度暴露自己)。越南和伊朗也不会参加，但原因不同。五个斯坦国家都不会参与。格鲁吉亚、阿塞拜疆和亚美尼亚也是。南美洲和非洲的大多数国家都会置身事外，为什么要自找麻烦呢?
Now, with some new, unforeseeable, and asymmetric weapon systems or methods, let's consider the economic aspects of this issue. Let's take a look at China's main trading partners:
现在，有了一些新的，不可预见的，不对称的武器系统或方法，让我们考虑这个问题的经济方面。让我们来看看中国的主要贸易伙伴：
• United States, Japan, South Korea, Germany, Australia;
•美国、日本、韩国、德国、澳大利亚；
Major trading partners with Russia:
和俄罗斯的主要贸易伙伴：
Western Europe, Ukraine, China, and the United States.
•西欧、乌克兰、中国和美国。
The main trading partners of the United States are:
美国的主要贸易伙伴是：
Canada, China, Mexico, EU, Japan, Germany, UK, South Korea.
•加拿大、中国、墨西哥、欧盟、日本、德国、英国、韩国。
Therefore, any attempt by Russia and China to "defeat" the United States will immediately push them towards a larger and more advantageous group of hostile countries. Especially, China will lose oil supply from the Persian Gulf and iron ore supply from Australia. Both Russia and China will lose a large amount of technology and materials they need to launch a war. In addition, any progress in "defeating" the United States would undermine China and Russia's foreign trade, which they heavily rely on (the United States is more self-sufficient than most countries, outsourcing manufacturing for cost reasons rather than a lack of technology).
因此，俄罗斯和中国任何试图“击败”美国的尝试都会立即将他们推向一个更大、更有利的敌对国家集团。特别是，中国将失去来自波斯湾的石油供应，以及来自澳大利亚的铁矿石供应。俄罗斯和中国都将失去他们发动战争所需的大量技术和材料。此外，任何“击败”美国的进展都会破坏中国和俄罗斯的对外贸易，而这是他们严重依赖的(美国比大多数国家更自给自足，外包制造业是出于成本原因，而不是缺乏技术)。